[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I played around a little bit and found these variable for the intake cams. Are any of these the values I'm looking for?... I get a weird noise around 3k RPM... wondering if it is PCV failing. VCG was replaced 2.5 years/20k miles ago and I would hope it would last longer than that!...

VANOS:
I've never used Protool, but attached to NEXT Post are 3 INPA VANOS ScreenPrints, showing Values at:
1) Ignition ON, Engine off, before cold start, at ~ 3:45 PM on late June day with Ambient Temp ~ 80F+; others saved in next 5 minutes:
2) 30 seconds after Cold start;
3) 4 minutes after Cold start.
ALL screens show engine/throttle on idle, 660 RPM after 2 minutes, higher in (2) after 30 seconds.

Those ScreenPrints are using the "Activations" Screen, but simply OBSERVING, or letting the VANOS Solenoids remain under DME Control. I simply opened the VANOS Activation Screen, but did NOT select any Function Key to Activate, or Over-ride DME Control. Einlass is Inlet/Intake, & Auslass is Outlet/Exhaust.

As you can see, cam angles change about 20 degrees between the 30-second value, & 4-minute value. The latter is what is normally seen with warm engine. The "Status" or Live Data Screen (F5 in INPA) shows similar data, but NOT the Solenoid percentage. That Status screen shows the VANOS Adaptation value instead of Solenoid %. ISTA values are approximately SAME.

I cannot account for the HUGE difference in your values, OR in the huge discrepancy between Setpoint angle & actual angle. As you can see, the Deviation should be LESS than 1.0 degree. On one occasion years ago, INPA somehow scrambled the Live Data when reading Cam Angles, & I was getting illogical values displayed. NO Idea why that happened.

I would suggest gently running RPM up to 2,500 - 3,000 & seeing how the angles change, as well as comparing (1) PRE-Start; (2) 30 seconds AFTER start, & (3) warm engine, at idle. As a sanity check, you could view INPUTS such as ECTS Engine Temp, RPM (Crank Sensor Signal), MAF value (~14 Kg/hr @ 660 RPM), etc. at idle, & see if those values are in the ballpark. Actually, you have so many other N52's/MSV80's around, just compare values between vehicles.

Weird Noise:
You mention PCV/Valve Cover. Is the noise a whistling/air leak type of noise, a bearing whine or growl, or some other noise? If whistling, as you probably know if Oil Filler Cap is hard to open with engine running, turn off engine, open cap, start engine, & test for vacuum at cap opening with hand -- also compare sound with cap open/closed. A Mechanic's Stethoscope, ~ $8 HFT, is good for identifying source of bearing noise or other noises, but if it only happens at ~ 3K rpm, not sure I'd want to risk it.

Jag V-12 required timing check at 3,000 RPM, with Old-style timing light, with mark UNDER Crankshaft. It was a bit harrowing to get UNDER a car, front wheels on ramps, with engine running at 3K RPM.

Long Crank, Intermittent:
Like any Intermittent issue, what variable appears to control: Length of Time since engine OFF? Ambient Temp? Engine Temp? Other? My N52K always starts after cranking ~ 1.0 to 1.5 seconds. I just push & immediately release START button, & let the CAS & DME do their "thing". Longer Crank, if it happens after engine OFF for some time could be rail pressure drop due to check valve failure.

Slow (Less than ~ 180 RPM) Crank could be due to low battery voltage or a failing Starter. Presumably ProTool can show System Voltage & voltage drop during Starter Cranking. A simple Multimeter can also do that.

You've got some great scenery nearby! We haven't seen the ground for the last 9 days, & probably won't for another week, at least, which is unusual for Northern VA (DC burbs).

BTW, those wheels look more angular (perhaps it's just the lighting?) than the BMW Double Spoke 156 wheels that are stock on my 3/2007 build E91. If NOT stock, do you know the brand? The BMW wheel# if stock?
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are INPA ScreenPrints, per prior post.
George

[StradaRedlands]

This is a lot to take in, but thank you both for starting the conversation. I'm going to have to work though this! Worn cam ledge, VANOS gears, yikes!

The variation in numbers as well as the earlier code are all on the intake side. The fact that I swapped solenoids and the problem stayed over at intake doesn't bode well for me...

In the meantime, the wheels are factory model 161s.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

... Worn cam ledge, VANOS gears, yikes! [avoid "autohypochondria" - NEVER give your car a female name ]
The variation in numbers as well as the earlier code are all on the intake side. The fact that I swapped solenoids and the problem [?] stayed over at intake doesn't bode well for me...

"Problem"? What Problem?
I prepared & posted my "Epistle" (Post #67) BEFORE realizing you had posted #65. Were the screens you posted as attachments to Post #65 with the Original Intake VANOS Solenoid now in the Exhaust VANOS Position?

Intake VANOS:
Regardless of which Solenoid was in what position, the Intake Cam ACTUAL angle is within one degree of the Setpoint (183.4 Actual, with 184 Setpoint: Deviation 0.6 degree). Whatever Solenoid was installed in Intake Position, AND the Connectors/wiring for that Solenoid, as well as the Intake Cam Position Sensor, are functioning as designed, at least when that ScreenPrint was saved.

Exhaust VANOS:
Deviation: 2.7 Degrees; Setpoint -177.9, Actual -175.2
You have never seen a fault code for Exhaust Cam/VANOS. If NO performance issue: Fuggedeboudit!

What I WOULD do: connect ProTool to another N52 in your "stable" & see if ROUGHLY the SAME Setpoints & Actual Cam Angles are displayed, keeping in mind:
1) Since angle changes with engine Temp & RPM, compare at idle with warm engine;
2) Scan Tool/Software is "hacking" into your DME & converting electrical signals from Sensors (here the Cam Position Sensors) into visual display. Apparently ProTool & INPA/ISTA have a different protocol for cam angle, as compared to ProTool.
3) Most Computer Geeks know more about Computers/hacking than automotive systems. BimmerGeeks appear to know more about BMW Systems than some of the other hackers, but 'Pobody'sNerfect'.

I don't pretend to know/haven't taken the time to conceptualize the meaning of my INPA "84.8 CRK" Intake Setpoint. Much less rationalize that with your "184 CRK" Intake Setpoint. I presume some signal from the Intake Cam Sensor is targeted to occur at "x degrees of CRanKshaft position, but cams turn ONCE per TWO revolutions of Crankshaft.

ANYONE know the meaning of either the ProTool display, or the INPA display? I'm more concerned with DETAILS than most folks, but as long as I don't have any fault codes, no performance issues, & small Deviation between Setpoint & Actual Angle (whatever scheme is used to display whatever angle), I'd rather spend my time on the cosmetics! (or watching TV)
George

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

"Problem"? What Problem?

Exhaust VANOS:
Deviation: 2.7 Degrees; Setpoint -177.9, Actual -175.2
You have never seen a fault code for Exhaust Cam/VANOS. If NO performance issue: Fuggedeboudit! [...]

More to follow when I get home today, but the exhaust deviation is after I switched solenoids. So the current exhaust solenoid was moved from intake position where I was getting the 2A98 code.

I have two donor solenoids at home that I will throw on and then get some more data!

[StradaRedlands]

Today's update: I got home from the mines and swapped in the donor solenoids (110k miles and very clean!). Went for a drive and took some readings. Did cold idle, hot idle, cold ignition off, hot ignition off, 1k, 2k, and 3k RPM. I didn't compare to the other cars to see what "normal" would be. No codes though, so I've got that going for me!







[


And just so I don't lose readers due to a lack of pretty pictures, he's a poorly framed shot with great lighting:

[StradaRedlands]

I don't think it's related to the VANOS code, but here is a video showing the whining noise that is occasionally popping up:

Oil cap seems like it doesn't have excessive vacuum on it, so guessing not PCV???

[StradaRedlands]

Final question: I have a yellow service required graphic on start, and going through my CBS menu, I have this yellow spark plug showing:



But as I cycle through it shows plugs aren't due for another 21k miles:



Again, no codes, and the plugs were documented as done a year/11k miles ago. I'm tempted to just re-set the service and see what happens.

I'm posting these three things as they're maaaaaybe related? My guess is not, but what doth the internets say???

[Tambohamilton]

I say reset it and see. Plug interval should be a lot more than 30k miles! But I don't think it'll affect the other issues in the slightest.

..but then I do own a diesel so YMMV?

[Cal122]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I don't think it's related to the VANOS code, but here is a video showing the whining noise that is occasionally popping up:

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Does the noise sound similar to this?:

If so, I would check the oil filter to ensure it isn't collapsed, and that the filter cage is in good quality with the necessary o-rings. I'd also ensure the filter cap is genuine as there are so many reports of the aftermarket ones cracking.

For the yellow spark plug, it's probably yellow to indicate service is coming due soon (within 20k miles), and it'll turn red when service is due/overdue. (That's how my indicator for brake fluid acts) Would go ahead and reset it since they were already done.

[StradaRedlands]

Cal122 This is a good lead, thanks! PO installed a new oil filter cap, but idk if it is genuine or not. It has a Mann filter in it, but interestingly I did notice that when I checkef the o-ring, the cap came off without the filter attached to the central cylinder piece. The filter just sat in the oil left in the housing. I've never seen a filter not come out with the cap, they're usually actually kind of a hassle to pull off. So I will definitely look at that! That whine happens with a warmed up engine, similar to the video you linked.

[StradaRedlands]

Welp, I took the oil filter cover off and swapped out filters. Existing filter was loose fit and didn't cling to the filter housing lattice at all. Probably a .5mm amount of play on the lattice. It was a made in Germany Mann filter. I swapped in a made in Brazil Mann filter I had, and it felt perfectly snug. So much that I had to kind of pop it on the last bit to get it fully seated. That's normally how they fit, so I feel good about that change even though the other one was probably fine.

Between that and changing the solenoids, no more codes popping up! It was probably the solenoids, but changing this out was easy/fast to do as well. And give me a quick video to post:

After this change I ook it for a drive, warmed it up, went up the same hill as shown above. Third gear @ 2,100 RPM... whine. Blip the throttle a bit and it goes away. Take my foot off the throttle it goes away. Just keep it on the throttle holding that RPM and it stays. Doesn't happen in second or fourth, just third. So I really don't think it's oil filter related, VANOS related, or PCV related... basically not an engine problem. Someone commented on the YouTube video that it was likely prop shaft or final drive. I'm currently leaning toward drivetrain like that, also maybe transmission as it just happens in third gear???

Prop/drive shaft was replaced, U-joint and CSB was replaced on the new one. Maybe they were chasing down this same problem? I'm going to change the transmission and diff fluid as a start. Will report back with my findings!

[tlow98]

Starting with the fluids sounds right. This generation of differential got the conical roller bearings which are known to be just ok. As in, they aren’t bullet proof like the old cylinder shaped roller bearings. If they start to leak then the bearing starves for oil. Or, sometimes they just go thanks to “lifetime fluid”.

The silver lining is they’re cheap as chips and you can “upgrade” to an automatic (3,6x?) ratio for the supercharger effect.

Do you have the GM trans or the ZF? I know some of the early cars got the ZF. I was always envious as I got the GM trans lol.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Starting with the fluids sounds right. This generation of differential got the conical roller bearings which are known to be just ok. As in, they aren’t bullet proof like the old cylinder shaped roller bearings. If they start to leak then the bearing starves for oil. Or, sometimes they just go thanks to “lifetime fluid”.

The silver lining is they’re cheap as chips and you can “upgrade” to an automatic (3,6x?) ratio for the supercharger effect.

Do you have the GM trans or the ZF? I know some of the early cars got the ZF. I was always envious as I got the GM trans lol.

Fingers crossed it can be remedied with some Redline... stranger things have happened! I really don't want to have to start throwing money at this thing, but fluids were already on my list of maintenance items. I'll just expedite them!

I'm not sure who makes the MT? I'm going with ATF over MTL on it... mainly as that's what I have on hand. I have ATF in the 330i right now, and MTL in Stradson's 328i, and really can't tell any difference. Fresh fluid of any type will be an improvement as I don't have any documentation of those lifetime fluids being changed!

[StradaRedlands]

A few ongoing projects ticked off as done: Swapped out front fender/wing with one Stradson pulled for me. The paint is a little rougher, but the dents are a lot smaller!!!






I was going to do at the next oil change, but moved up the final drive oil change in order to track down the whine. This wasn't it :-(

Then went out for a drive and a hike:

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Fingers crossed it can be remedied with some Redline... stranger things have happened! I really don't want to have to start throwing money at this thing, but fluids were already on my list of maintenance items. I'll just expedite them!

I'm not sure who makes the MT? I'm going with ATF over MTL on it... mainly as that's what I have on hand. I have ATF in the 330i right now, and MTL in Stradson's 328i, and really can't tell any difference. Fresh fluid of any type will be an improvement as I don't have any documentation of those lifetime fluids being changed!

Oh, I’m a fool. This is a MT thread… duh. It’s prolly a getrag.

Ok, back to the whine. It doesn’t sound mechanical from the video, but always hard to tell with a video. Can you drive it next to a wall and see if it’s side specific?

I’ve had people drive me while I crawled around in the back before, as well. Maybe try pulling the rear seat bottom as it’s fast and might help reveal something. I’ve never heard a center support bearing go like that, but seems possible. Did you say they replaced the D/S + CSB?

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Oh, I’m a fool. This is a MT thread… duh. It’s prolly a getrag.

Ok, back to the whine. It doesn’t sound mechanical from the video, but always hard to tell with a video. Can you drive it next to a wall and see if it’s side specific?

I’ve had people drive me while I crawled around in the back before, as well. Maybe try pulling the rear seat bottom as it’s fast and might help reveal something. I’ve never heard a center support bearing go like that, but seems possible. Did you say they replaced the D/S + CSB?

I figured that was what you were thinking... :-)

I really don't think it's driveshaft or rear end... I mean, it could be, but seems to be coming from the front of the car. Maybe transmission, and I'm putting new fluid in midweek when I get some plugs. But I don't think it's that.

I can get the sound to reproduce under very specific conditions: Going slightly uphill, third gear, 2,100 RPM with just a toe-tip of throttle. Not in second gear, not in fourth, even at same RPM, hill, etc. Nothing at idle at all, so no noises I can hear with the hood open and using a mechanics stethoscope.

And yes, "driveshaft rebuild" in May '19, and then U joint and CSB in Aug 24. I've never had prop problems in any car, so that stuck out as odd to me.

[Tambohamilton]

That is really weird. Does sound a lot like gear whine to me, but so hard to know from a recording. Gear whine is normally a lot more consistent - this seems really intermittent, depending on specific conditions.

Have you checked engine mounts, gearbox mounts, diff mounts? I wonder if it's a gear noise that resonates through the chassis at specific conditions, due to bad mounts somewhere.

[Runnin'Rich]

It can only be a trans problem with 3rd gear if it’s only posible to make the noise in 3rd.
Typical noises are either engine speed or wheel speed (vehicle speed) specific. So you can determine easily whether its engine or drivetrain noise.
Then If it’s only happening in one gear even though you tried the same engine/ vehicle speed in different gears, it must be the trans right?

Unless it’s a specific resonant frequency that only occurs in 3rd??

[Missouri Guy]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

A few ongoing projects ticked off as done: Swapped out front fender/wing with one Stradson pulled for me. The paint is a little rougher, but the dents are a lot smaller!!!

Since I know nothing about the mechanical, I’ll ask about the fender. What made you do a swap instead of going to a body shop? The Wilmington Wagon had a couple of nasty dents, one on a crease, and my local shop was able to make them look like new without paint. Is it worse in person? Can’t tell from the pic.

She looks great!

[StradaRedlands]

Thanks Tambohamilton & Runnin'Rich! I'll be taking it in to a shop to get diagnosed and maybe fixed if it's outside my skill set. I don't mind doing that as I can do most the other repairs so taking it in now it then for something that needs it is easily justified! The way it reproduces only under very specific circumstances is really the part that complicates it for me. Although that might make it easy to diagnose by a qualified diagnoser as well!!!

Missouri Guy Body work is incredibly expensive. If I can swap out a piece my only real investment is time and a little money. The dent was pretty big and there is a little primer showing underneath, so paintless dent removal wasn't really an option for it. That meant body shop and I'm guessing around $4-500 to repair and repaint. Black is incredibly easy color to find and one of the local yards had a 2011 with 110k on it... Fender/Wing was $40. It's not pristine, but actually matches the wear and tear on the rest of the penels perfectly! Bumpers, fenders and doors are real easy to replace and pretty cheap used. The only cosmetic damage I would need professionally repaired would be quarter panels and roof as they don't just unbolt. The rest are basically a big Lego set you just have to assemble the right order!

Part of my mission here is to encourage people to wrench on their cars, and to a lesser degree find out how to procure cheap parts from the wrecker yard. These vehicles are really easy to work on, and used pick n pull parts are pennies on the dollar.

[jsunma]

re. Whine...

Sounds really dumb, but have you eliminated the HVAC blower fan from the range of possibilities? I have a whine like that and it's my car telling me that I really need to replace that 18 year old fan (my car's birthday is this month!). I can get it to go away if I mess with the fan speed (here in New England, one constantly messes with that...maybe not so much in SoCal).