[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by ab987

I appreciate the responses but I want to see some testing and numbers. I'm sure Delphi and Eldor coils would work fine for my application but for those really winding it out, it would be great to know

Honestly....if you want some good data, you are probably going to have to do some testing yourself. If a simple google search doesn't find any good data..there isn't any.

As long as you have fresh plugs that are gapped correctly.....just about any oem coil is going to work just fine. The reason there aren't all kinds of aftermarket high powered ignition coils available for the N54 is because they aren't really needed.....if they were , MSD and other big name ignition component companies would have coils that would fit the N54. But they don't....for a reason.

[ab987]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

Honestly....if you want some good data, you are probably going to have to do some testing yourself. If a simple google search doesn't find any good data..there isn't any.

As long as you have fresh plugs that are gapped correctly.....just about any oem coil is going to work just fine. The reason there aren't all kinds of aftermarket high powered ignition coils available for the N54 is because they aren't really needed.....if they were , MSD and other big name ignition component companies would have coils that would fit the N54. But they don't....for a reason.

It's just infuriating that all of this testing has been done for every other N54, S55, and B58 coil except for the one coil that everybody swears by.

[mcp]

Originally Posted by ab987

It's just infuriating that all of this testing has been done for every other N54, S55, and B58 coil except for the one coil that everybody swears by.

if you want numbers you're gonna have to get them yourself. if you're really that concerned just go with the B58s or even R8 coils.

You'll be fine with delphi or eldor, realistically you won't see spark issues till you're 700+ *(on new OE parts), and the first thing you do is always colder plugs gapped a bit smaller.

[ab987]

Originally Posted by mcp

if you want numbers you're gonna have to get them yourself. if you're really that concerned just go with the B58s or even R8 coils.

You'll be fine with delphi or eldor, realistically you won't see spark issues till you're 700+ *(on new OE parts), and the first thing you do is always colder plugs gapped a bit smaller.

If I had the money for a nice power supply and waveform generator and the rest of the laundry list of equipment to measure spark energy, I would probably not even consider our relatively weak factory options. I'm simply commenting on the fact that there is a cult surrounding a relatively new coil (compared to Delphi/Bosch) that for whatever reason has been overlooked in the fantastic formal testing that this community has done. Just confusing.

Thanks for the assistance, guys. Maybe someday, a man can dream.

[F13.KENN]

Forum name censored on here but starts with spool and ends with street, theres a guy that did lots of nerdy testing on all of the different coils and the b58s came out more powerful than anything else. Even the r8 & PR coils.

Cant post link because censor but do some googling and you can probably find it easily

[ab987]

Originally Posted by SCHWARZ_E92

Forum name censored on here but starts with spool and ends with street, theres a guy that did lots of nerdy testing on all of the different coils and the b58s came out more powerful than anything else. Even the r8 & PR coils.

Cant post link because censor but do some googling and you can probably find it easily

Right, that's the bahn I'm talking about. He's done some fantastic testing but seems to have left out the Eldor N54 coil

[F13.KENN]

Originally Posted by ab987

Right, that's the bahn I'm talking about. He's done some fantastic testing but seems to have left out the Eldor N54 coil

Ah thought the eldor was in the list. Also didnt fully read this thread haha

[rbryantaz]

One thing that will be interesting is the lifespan of the coils in a tuned setup. If coils have a shorter life then that also makes a difference. When I first looked into the B58 coils it was because I wanted to change the coils once and forget about it.

I saw reports of people changing coils every 30k-40k miles which not only adds cost at that point it is just one other thing to worry about. I wanted to eliminate the question of "Is it time to replace my coils again."

The B58 coils seem like they have more headroom and therefore should last longer. Perhaps only time will tell on if the B58 coils have a significantly longer life. Some vendors do offer a lifetime warranty on coils but that warranty normally does require a coil to fail rather than just "I want new coils after 20-40k miles of operation."

Information about how many miles are achieved at a given power level would be interesting but there are many variables involved such as spark plug gap, E85 level, etc that make it quite complicated....

Full disclosure I did develop kits for the B58 coils and sell them so my input on this topic is biased now. I don't want to make unsupported claims but mentioning the coil life aspect seems like a fair aspect of the discussion.

-Rich

[ab987]

Originally Posted by rbryantaz

One thing that will be interesting is the lifespan of the coils in a tuned setup. If coils have a shorter life then that also makes a difference. When I first looked into the B58 coils it was because I wanted to change the coils once and forget about it.

I saw reports of people changing coils every 30k-40k miles which not only adds cost at that point it is just one other thing to worry about. I wanted to eliminate the question of "Is it time to replace my coils again."

The B58 coils seem like they have more headroom and therefore should last longer. Perhaps only time will tell on if the B58 coils have a significantly longer life. Some vendors do offer a lifetime warranty on coils but that warranty normally does require a coil to fail rather than just "I want new coils after 20-40k miles of operation."

Information about how many miles are achieved at a given power level would be interesting but there are many variables involved such as spark plug gap, E85 level, etc that make it quite complicated....

Full disclosure I did develop kits for the B58 coils and sell them so my input on this topic is biased now. I don't want to make unsupported claims but mentioning the coil life aspect seems like a fair aspect of the discussion.

-Rich

Thanks for stopping by Rich. Doesn't every B58 kit require modification to the coil springs and boot at minimum? That's my biggest worry, should a B58 fail I don't want warranty to be out of the question anyways because of modifications to the coil.

[rbryantaz]

Originally Posted by ab987

Thanks for stopping by Rich. Doesn't every B58 kit require modification to the coil springs and boot at minimum? That's my biggest worry, should a B58 fail I don't want warranty to be out of the question anyways because of modifications to the coil.

As for the warranty I think that depends on interpretation. Really running any coil with higher that stock power levels and non stock spark plug configurations probably technically voids the warranty. In the purest sense running an S55 coil on a modified N54 is no different, it isn't being used in the original intended application so is there a warranty on that?

One could put a stock non modified B58 boot back on a coil to return it but the ethics of that are probably questionable.
The B58 coils are ~$30-35 each from many suppliers. If running a modified car that probably isn't a huge part of the budget of doing so if one had to be replaced outside of warranty. This is especially true if they do last longer than the S55 eldors.

On the related note of replacing a coil:

The boots are designed to be replaceable on the B58 coils so the inverse is also true.

Once modified the boot can be directly swapped between an old and new B58 coil in seconds.

-Rich

[rbryantaz]

One other thing that I should have mentioned is that using the bigger coils can often also support larger plug gaps than smaller coils can at the same power levels.

If the coil can support the larger plug gap it can give a better burn and longer spark plug life.

So there are some other advantages with the bigger coils.

-Rich

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by rbryantaz

One thing that will be interesting is the lifespan of the coils in a tuned setup. If coils have a shorter life then that also makes a difference. When I first looked into the B58 coils it was because I wanted to change the coils once and forget about it.

I saw reports of people changing coils every 30k-40k miles which not only adds cost at that point it is just one other thing to worry about. I wanted to eliminate the question of "Is it time to replace my coils again."

The B58 coils seem like they have more headroom and therefore should last longer. Perhaps only time will tell on if the B58 coils have a significantly longer life. Some vendors do offer a lifetime warranty on coils but that warranty normally does require a coil to fail rather than just "I want new coils after 20-40k miles of operation."

Information about how many miles are achieved at a given power level would be interesting but there are many variables involved such as spark plug gap, E85 level, etc that make it quite complicated....

Full disclosure I did develop kits for the B58 coils and sell them so my input on this topic is biased now. I don't want to make unsupported claims but mentioning the coil life aspect seems like a fair aspect of the discussion.

-Rich

Good points, that would require extensive testing and data that we don't have available unfortunately.

[rbryantaz]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Good points, that would require extensive testing and data that we don't have available unfortunately.

I agree.

Very few upgrades have scientific data like that...

There are also many variables such as ethanol mix, temperature, other upgrades, etc. Most will also go with the proven small spark plug gap.

There are now several people running the b58 style coils with good results and we know that the specs for the eldor b58 coils and have information from Dinan on stock coils and their coils. Dinan however did not state what stock coils they used.

https://www.dinancars.com/products/e...arts/D650-0003


https://www.eldorgroup.com/en/produc...ignition-coils


Dinan shows their coils maxing out at 96.6mJ @ 3ms dwell and the stock N54/N55 being 81.6. If we assume that the S55 coils are similar to the Dinan versions (Dinan claims 10% higher for their coils) the Eldor B58 still has 25% more energy at their spec of 130mJ over the Dinan and S55 coils.

So the B58 coils are more powerful. The question is if they are needed or not.

Even if someone does back to back dyno testing it won't "prove it" for all setups.

-Rich

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by rbryantaz

One other thing that I should have mentioned is that using the bigger coils can often also support larger plug gaps than smaller coils can at the same power levels.

If the coil can support the larger plug gap it can give a better burn and longer spark plug life.

So there are some other advantages with the bigger coils.

-Rich

A bigger gap means it takes more amps to jump it = bigger spark. Yes, but as far as a bigger/hotter spark making plugs live longer? I would think it would be the opposite......a larger amp/hotter spark is going to eat up the electrode faster than a smaller/weaker spark.

[rbryantaz]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

A bigger gap means it takes more amps to jump it = bigger spark. Yes, but as far as a bigger/hotter spark making plugs live longer? I would think it would be the opposite......a larger amp/hotter spark is going to eat up the electrode faster than a smaller/weaker spark.

I think you are right, that was not an accurate statement. I stand corrected, the larger gap can cause more electrode wear.

While there is a benefit of a larger spark plug gap wear isn't one of them. As long as the coil has enough power for a specific gap it won't really change anything but at larger gaps where the stock coil wouldn't work and the hotter coil can then it would wear the electrode more due to it having to cross a larger electrical potential.

Running the larger gap does have advantages to fuel economy, efficiency, emissions, etc if the coil can support it.

-Rich

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by rbryantaz

I agree.

Very few upgrades have scientific data like that...

There are also many variables such as ethanol mix, temperature, other upgrades, etc. Most will also go with the proven small spark plug gap.

There are now several people running the b58 style coils with good results and we know that the specs for the eldor b58 coils and have information from Dinan on stock coils and their coils. Dinan however did not state what stock coils they used.

https://www.dinancars.com/products/e...arts/D650-0003


https://www.eldorgroup.com/en/produc...ignition-coils
Attachment 2829203

Dinan shows their coils maxing out at 96.6mJ @ 3ms dwell and the stock N54/N55 being 81.6. If we assume that the S55 coils are similar to the Dinan versions (Dinan claims 10% higher for their coils) the Eldor B58 still has 25% more energy at their spec of 130mJ over the Dinan and S55 coils.

So the B58 coils are more powerful. The question is if they are needed or not.

Even if someone does back to back dyno testing it won't "prove it" for all setups.

-Rich

I agree B58 coils are superior technically, but whether they translate into actual performance improvements or better longevity wise, that remains to be seen.

In my opinion coils failing at 40-60k miles is hardly an issue for us tinkerers who spend thousands on the car and other failure points.

I mean if someone does huge starship miles on their N54, then they should obviously look at longer lasting coils, otherwise for someone like me, I'm looking changing coils every 6 years or longer, hardly a concern for me.

[rbryantaz]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

I agree B58 coils are superior technically, but whether they translate into actual performance improvements or better longevity wise, that remains to be seen.

In my opinion coils failing at 40-60k miles is hardly an issue for us tinkerers who spend thousands on the car and other failure points.

I mean if someone does huge starship miles on their N54, then they should obviously look at longer lasting coils, otherwise for someone like me, I'm looking changing coils every 6 years or longer, hardly a concern for me.

I agree it is a case by case evaluation.

There are applications where coil life is longer and ones where it is shorter.

If the S55 coils work well for you then that is great!

I won't deny that most of the things I do for my personal car are overkill for what I actually do with it.

-Rich

[dragonz]

Bit of a Johnny-come-lately on this. I have a 2007 335i with N54 running stage 2+ MHD tune, & at 125,000km I'm looking at replacing coils for the 2nd time.
Just had cyl 5 go bad (was the first last time too) so I know the others will follow.

Did anyone come to a conclusion on this discussion as to what worked best/lasted best?
I'm keenest on something that is "oem plug & play" rather than modifying wiring, but I don't want to keep replacing coils every 60,000km (give or take).

OP, what did you go for in the end?
Thx

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by dragonz

Bit of a Johnny-come-lately on this. I have a 2007 335i with N54 running stage 2+ MHD tune, & at 125,000km I'm looking at replacing coils for the 2nd time.
Just had cyl 5 go bad (was the first last time too) so I know the others will follow.

Did anyone come to a conclusion on this discussion as to what worked best/lasted best?
I'm keenest on something that is "oem plug & play" rather than modifying wiring, but I don't want to keep replacing coils every 60,000km (give or take).

OP, what did you go for in the end?
Thx

If you are getting 37k miles on OEM coils......I don't see what the problem is. You are running a tuned 6cyl motor making 400-ish HP, with turbos pushing more than double the stock boost. These things take maintenance to keep them running properly. I put new coils and plugs in my car every 10k miles (thanks FCP Euro).

Throw a fresh set of new Delphi or Eldor coils in it and be happy.

[JonEQuest]

I have stock N55 Eldors and I have to admit, after 2 years of them I have not had even ONE misfire. But I am thinking of replacing the coils in my daughters stock N54 so I may get the B58's and just give her my Eldors. Do the top B58 coils fit the N54 plug and play or do you have to mod stuff? I would really like the most powerful plug and play option available. I don't care to mod stuff and rig up the springs, etc. I also plan to upgrade from my 17T's to maybe 19T's or Frankenturbos soon, so I may as well make sure I have the right coils.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by JonEQuest

I have stock N55 Eldors and I have to admit, after 2 years of them I have not had even ONE misfire. But I am thinking of replacing the coils in my daughters stock N54 so I may get the B58's and just give her my Eldors. Do the top B58 coils fit the N54 plug and play or do you have to mod stuff? I would really like the most powerful plug and play option available. I don't care to mod stuff and rig up the springs, etc. I also plan to upgrade from my 17T's to maybe 19T's or Frankenturbos soon, so I may as well make sure I have the right coils.

Just a word of advice.....if you want some turbos that will actually last, go with a nice set of RB Turbos. Those ebay turbos are junk. The RB Twos will make 500+ hp easy, and 550+ on and E40 tune. Machined, balanced, and assembled here in the USA. And Rob Beck is a great guy to deal with, and full of great information.

[JonEQuest]

I have always heard good things about RB turbos. I also believe in some things being made in the USA.
BUT, my Wuhan Warriors (VIV 17t's early 2020) have been going strong at 19-22 psi for years and ~28k miles. They still feel the same (seat of the pants) as when they were installed. They cost me just under $1,000 shipped and I have 2 fuel pumps/PI, FBO, DP, and some Chinese stainless free flowing exhaust. Maybe the downpipes and free flowing exhaust have helped but my car doesn't smoke. The only smoke I ever seen is very faint when exiting the highway just after going WOT to the exit. Even then I can only see it if my top is down and is likely due to extra fuel dump on rapid decell and my lack of any cats. I guess I got lucky and I am sure if I ran them at 30psi I would have killed them by now but unless I get a good deal on some high dollar units I can't see spending double or more than what I have to. I have owned 1 M235i, and 4 E93 335i's, 3 with N54 engines, 2 with N55's and I have had to drop EVERY cars subframe at least once to do oil pan at a minimum. I also rebuilt 1 N54 and 1 N55 with a modded N54 crank. My point is that I have a Quick Jack in my air conditioned garage, and more experience than I desire at dropping subframes. If I can save $1,000 or more with only a small chance of having to drop a subframe for the 39th time, I am willing to take that chance. I know for most people the extra money and peace of mind is worth it. I have also broken the rules with almost every other part on my car being cheap Chinese knockoffs. My Inlets, outlets, 7.5" stepped intercooler, DP, exhaust, BOV, CP, dual OCC, are all knock offs. I do have the Phoenix Racing PI manifold and Injectors, but all my other parts are cheap. I even made my own external PCV. I still am considering the Frankenturbo because I have heard good things about the spool and flow but am open to suggestions.