[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

So are you thinking it's just oil filters doing their oil filter job?

Strada, it's obviously an indication his N52 is about to blow up because, you know, magnesium...

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Strada, it's obviously an indication his N52 is about to blow up because, you know, magnesium...

Spot on! You of all people are a testament to just how awful these motors are!

[sonofsun]

Were the flakes taken to a lab to confirm they were indeed magnesium? If not, it's something else.

We need PMI (Positive Material Identification) to suggest any possible remedies.

[The Nightman]

Here are some other instances of the coating peeling:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057286

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...il-filter.html

Not sure why people are so defensive over the N52. Some issues only become apparent overtime. I rather be informed of any potential concerns and understand their cause rather than be dismissive...

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by The Nightman

Here are some other instances of the coating peeling:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057286

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/b...nally.1457940/

Not sure why people are so defensive over the N52. Some issues only become apparent overtime. I rather be informed of any potential concerns and understand their cause rather than be dismissive...

It was the tone, not the content that didn't communicate well.

[Hakentt]

Originally Posted by The Nightman

Not sure why people are so defensive over the N52. Some issues only become apparent overtime. I rather be informed of any potential concerns and understand their cause rather than be dismissive...

Some people are not mechanics, they are just owners and think what they own has to be great

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Hakentt

Some people are not mechanics, they are just owners and think what they own has to be great

I have I combined experience with the N52 of 36 years and 550,000 miles on my two BMWs with the N52. But you say the engine sucks. Sorry, but you are just wrong. Even if there is some type of coating that flakes off from inside the block and is captured in the oil filter, where is your evidence that the phenomenon causes early termination of the N52's life expectancy. Show us the evidence. I have very good evidence to contrary.

This forum has very good evidence to the contrary.

Who gives a crap if you've rebuilt an N52, what does that have to do with the detrimental materials science issue you claim the N52 has?

[Runnin'Rich]

Well it’s very minimal on both my cars so there is no chance that it could interrupt the flow of oil.

I’m in canda so maybe it’s a cold climate specific problem?
I can’t imagine it’s the Mobil one oil I’m using? Unless there’s a detergent In there that’s breaking down the coating…

Even if I changed to a different oil brand now it will probably keep collecting flakes in the next filter.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by Hakentt

Some people are not mechanics, they are just owners and think what they own has to be great

Just an owner checking in: What I own has been great!

Minus various gaskets of course. They just suck.

[sonofsun]

Even if the average life span of these BMW E90 engines are greater than 150,000 miles, they are still way better than the modern GM, Dodge, Hyundai crap that breakdown way before 100,000 miles.

Heck even Toyota engines these days self destruct before 100,000 miles.

Coating or varnish peeling off and getting filtered by the filter isn't going to make most of us lose sleep over these engines. If you maintain these BMWs good, they are way way more reliable than Mercedes and Audi engines of recent times.

[hassmaschine]

oh Hakentt - still posting absolute nonsense after all these years. they still haven't grown up apparently. what's funny is newer people will have no idea of his infamy.

[lookalikehuuh]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Spot on! You of all people are a testament to just how awful these motors are!

If you think about it between you, Efthreeoh, and me we are well over a million miles driven collectively on our N52s without any issues internally. We must be in the minority apparently.

The audacity of these POS engine to last this long!

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by lookalikehuuh

If you think about it between you, Efthreeoh, and me we are well over a million miles driven collectively on our N52s without any issues internally. We must be in the minority apparently.

The audacity of these POS engine to last this long!

Had a smidge of open road ahead of me on the drive home today and was thinking what a joy it was to go through the gears. If I can get one good pull or one full on ramp at speed, I'm a happy person!

I love my POS!

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by sonofsun

Were the flakes taken to a lab to confirm they were indeed magnesium? If not, it's something else.

We need PMI (Positive Material Identification) to suggest any possible remedies.

Is that PMI or actually PMS?

[Runnin'Rich]

I sent a piece of filter with flakes to Blackstone Labs along with my oil sample. They called me and asked if I wanted the lab tests to find out what the flakes were. The charge was high like over $100 so I declined.
I was hoping someone at BSL would just recognise the flakes and suggest a possible material.

[The Nightman]

Based on the photos of the flakes in the filter in this thread, as well as the two threads linked here (with photos of the peeling coating), I assume they share the same cause.

Looking at various used N52 blocks on eBay, they do not exhibit the same "golden" coating as found in the above threads with the peeling coating.

Reading through this paper on the manufacturing of the N52 engine, there is no mention of a coating used on the AJ62 magnesium alloy.

The peeling coating does not seem to be a common issue; if it was, I think we would see a lot more incident reports.


So I do not think the peeling coating/flakes are a design or manufacturing defect/issue with the N52 engine. Without knowing the full history of the engines with the flakes, we can only speculate. Given these engine's propensity to leak oil, I wonder if a previous owner used some type of engine stop leak additive, which coated the engine and is now peeling off?

Thanks for attending my TED Talk.

[The Nightman]

Originally Posted by Runnin'Rich

I sent a piece of filter with flakes to Blackstone Labs along with my oil sample. They called me and asked if I wanted the lab tests to find out what the flakes were. The charge was high like over $100 so I declined.

Is it too late? I'm willing to chip in to hopefully resolve this mystery. I'm sure others are willing to help out too.

[Runnin'Rich]

Was 6 months ago so there’s no chance they’d still have it.
The garbage truck just picked up the filtere I took out of my x3 last week! Sorry!
I’ll save the next one but will be in 9 months or so do another 10kkm.

One engine is really clean inside and the other is more varnished but not gummed up. They both have the flakes, both 2009MY cars

[Hakentt]

Originally Posted by The Nightman

Is it too late? I'm willing to chip in to hopefully resolve this mystery. I'm sure others are willing to help out too.

here is what I was talking about:

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Hakentt

here is what I was talking about:

So, it looks like the producer of that video found three N52 engines that broke. Yet there is no mention of the maintenance history of any of them and the mileages at which they failed. As the viewer of the video, I have no idea what the owners of the three failed engines used for oil and oil filters, or if the engines were abused and used outside of their operational parameters and what type of parts were used to maintain the engines. The pictures of the E90 in the video does not seem like it was well maintained or correctly maintained.

Failure of the cooling system. If the thermostat fails it fails open and does not cause an overheating condition. I was one of the first owners to discover this. If the coolant pump fails, the engine begins to overheat but the N52 has a protection map in the ECU that minimizes the overheat condition and if the driver doesn't ignore the overheat warning an shuts the engine off once the red over temp notification (both visual and audible) the engine does not suffer heat damage. I was the first owner to discover a failing water pump throws trouble codes. I reported this issue here on E90 Post back in early 2011 and commented in that thread that the design flaw I see with the E90 was not making a failing waterpump (not failed) a notice to the owner so the pump could be replaced prior to a complete shutdown.

The design issues with the electric waterpump, is it being different than a belt-driven pump there is no orifice in the pump body to begin leaking coolant once the impeller shaft seal fails (which leads to bearing failure and eventual seizing of the pump). Traditionally, the leaking coolant smell is the sign to the owner the waterpump needs attention. The 200W N52 pump fails because the electronics overheat, not because of a mechanical failure of the electric motor or impeller/impeller shaft. Since the E90 lacks a coolant gauge, BMW should have made a specific trouble light for a failing (slow-speed operation) waterpump. My waterpump failed at 149,500 miles, the engine overheated and I immediately shut the engine down. I replaced the pump and the engine ran for another 276,300 miles on the replacement pump (until I had to total the car due to a flood event - not because the engine failed), so the overheat condition did not affect the longevity of my N52.

I do agree with the video producer that the oil pan gasket design sucks and made mention of it when I contributed to the OPG DIY in the E90 Post DIY section. It's unfortunate the OPG was not designed better. Yet the repair/correction is to simply add an RTV gasket maker product to the gasket when it is being replaced. The N52 is not the first engine in the history of the automobile to have been fitted with a subpar OPG. Can we question the use of a magnesium outer block drove the poor design of the OPG, eh, maybe, but leaking at such high mileages is not uncommon for most automotive engines. And the N52's OPG does not completely fail and cause oil starvation. My OPG began leaking at 200,000 miles.

The 3rd N52 in the video failed because the serpentine belt/oilfilter housing gasket was not properly maintained. If you are a car owner, open the effing hood once and a while and poke around to check for operational issues. The noted failures of the N52 all happen at high mileages and advanced ages, 150,000 - 200,000 miles. Most cars and engines require repairs at 100,000+ mileages. Because someone makes a video of three failed N52's that have questionable/unknown service and maintenance histories doesn't make the case the N52 is junk.

I'll argue to the cows come home the N52 is not junk. I have the history to prove it and have posted for the past 18 years why it is a great engine. It's not perfect, but when an engine can last over 400,000 miles with reasonable maintenace (like a lifetime average OCI of 12,300 miles) and some minor repairs, it's not junk.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Runnin'Rich

Was 6 months ago so there’s no chance they’d still have it.
The garbage truck just picked up the filtere I took out of my x3 last week! Sorry!
I’ll save the next one but will be in 9 months or so do another 10kkm.

One engine is really clean inside and the other is more varnished but not gummed up. They both have the flakes, both 2009MY cars

This is a good data point. The flakes could be a result of poor production processes during the build of specific range of N52 production.

[The Nightman]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is a good data point. The flakes could be a result of poor production processes during the build of specific range of N52 production.

The other two threads I linked to involves a 2011 128i and a 2007 X3, so if it's across the board if it's a manufacturing defect.