Originally Posted by Salzamani

Yes there are counterfeit injectors that are mass produced with the same flow rate stamped on the injectors.

lol no there aren't "counterfeit' injectors out there...just a ton of ebay/china sellers selling used injectors as reman.

[Wolf 335]

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by Salzamani

As I mentioned before in other threads, this is the index12 injector that I installed in my N54. Yes it is a used remanufactured injector. I looked closely into this Ebay seller’s feedback results on this injector in particular and the seller is spotless. They are legit genuine Siemens index12 Injectors. I even spoke to him on the phone and he answered all of my question to make me feel comfortable. That injector is mixed with my 5 index 1’s and has been absolutely perfect. Having/owning this index 12 injector also opens me up to potentially using it as a core to purchase future remanufactured injectors from FCP. This Ebay seller does take offers as well. I got mine for $90. Here is the link

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-FUEL-IN...-/262399013193


I figure like this. My original index 1 injectors have lasted me for 70k miles and 12 years and 5 of them are still going strong. There has been many updates to these injectors in an effort to improve them. Any index 12 injector, even used is likely to be in much better condition than my 12 year old injectors... why not just buy 1 yes used index12 injector to replace the one bad injector that I have and if it lasts me 2-5 years than that’s long enough for me to decide whether or not I’ll even keep this car that long. Just running out and replacing 6 injectors for $1400 that money will not be recovered if I ever sell the car. Gotta keep things sensible. The value of the car doesn’t support spending $1400 for a part and that beings a good decision. we may think we want to keep these cars for 10-15 years longer but statistics show that is very unlikely. That’s why FCP is successful.

I emailed the eBay seller selling those remanufactured injectors on eBay. He said he didn't know if the calibration numbers were changed or not when they were rebuilt. But he said he's never heard of anyone having any coding issues.

Might be like the explanation the guy at FCP Euro gave me regarding their rebuild injectors. They said that when they rebuild them and get them back to spec, the flow and power numbers don't change.

Not sure I believe that or not .....but maybe it's such a small difference that the DME just adjusts for any differences.....like most other cars. I still don't know what you can swap injectors in other cars with no issues at all......but with the 335is you have to code them in.

[SlimE92]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

I emailed the eBay seller selling those remanufactured injectors on eBay. He said he didn't know if the calibration numbers were changed or not when they were rebuilt. But he said he's never heard of anyone having any coding issues.

Might be like the explanation the guy at FCP Euro gave me regarding their rebuild injectors. They said that when they rebuild them and get them back to spec, the flow and power numbers don't change.

Not sure I believe that or not .....but maybe it's such a small difference that the DME just adjusts for any differences.....like most other cars. I still don't know what you can swap injectors in other cars with no issues at all......but with the 335is you have to code them in.

I'd rather mix injectors the same way you are about to do with a oem injector than one of those eBay "reman" injectors.

I wouldn't run it long term though, I'd suggest ordering another 2 ASAP when the funds allow.

[georgelb]

Originally Posted by Salzamani

Maybe there are other factors such as HPFP or others in what may cause some vehicles to potentially need all 3 injectors replaced in that bank with index11 or higher. I think even BMW doesn’t know. In my case I had a rough idle, the engine would constantly miss. That spark plug was black and my fuel economy was around 20 mpg. All I did was throw in 1 index12 in cylinder 1 and all the rest remained index1’s. Upon first start the change was like night and day. It ran smooth as butter at idle. The test drive was flawless it pulled very strong. No engine codes. Fuel economy is up now about 22-23mpg despite the more spirited driving. No one can convince me that my car needs to have all index12’s the way it has been running for the past 2 months. Now if something changes or I’m wrong in any way I’m not the type to be too proud to admit it. I will report back.

That would fall under the umbrella of things that will still technically work when done counter to established guidelines, with the SIB providing the guideline of not mixing them in this case, confirming that this advice isn't simply conjecture.

That said, knowing that not following the guidelines seems to work for people is valuable data too, and allows one to make an informed decision based on the level of risk they're willing to assume.

In this case the risks are unknown, as the SIB doesn't state them.

So..
Some will replace one, because it works for others and is cheaper.
Some will replace all, because they're wary of any unforeseen risks.

Neither decision is necessarily wrong.

[Salzamani]

Originally Posted by georgelb

That would fall under the umbrella of things that will still technically work when done counter to established guidelines, with the SIB providing the guideline of not mixing them in this case, confirming that this advice isn't simply conjecture.

That said, knowing that not following the guidelines seems to work for people is valuable data too, and allows one to make an informed decision based on the level of risk they're willing to assume.

In this case the risks are unknown, as the SIB doesn't state them.

So..
Some will replace one, because it works for others and is cheaper.
Some will replace all, because they're wary of any unforeseen risks.

Neither decision is necessarily wrong.

I totally agree 👍🏼

[Salzamani]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

I emailed the eBay seller selling those remanufactured injectors on eBay. He said he didn't know if the calibration numbers were changed or not when they were rebuilt. But he said he's never heard of anyone having any coding issues.

Might be like the explanation the guy at FCP Euro gave me regarding their rebuild injectors. They said that when they rebuild them and get them back to spec, the flow and power numbers don't change.

Not sure I believe that or not .....but maybe it's such a small difference that the DME just adjusts for any differences.....like most other cars. I still don't know what you can swap injectors in other cars with no issues at all......but with the 335is you have to code them in.

The Ebay user name is the phone number 1 (888) 972-7871. It’s been a couple months already but I called the company and actually spoke with someone so that I could have a open conversation. I recommend you do the same thing. Ask all the important question. He does warranty the injector for 1 month and if you leave a feedback he extends the warranty to 2 months. Plus you get Ebay’s buyer protection as well. I figured they are index 12 injectors that can’t be that old. They either work or they don’t work. I just wanted my car fixed without spending an arm and a leg. For only $90 It totally fixed all my existing problems. If it was a bad injector or was not working well with my other injectors or the car didn’t like it, it would be obvious. I would feel it and it would show up in my fuel economy. THE CAR RUNS PERFECT MAN ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Salzamani]

That Ebay seller also has index9 injectors for even less. I went with index12 because I trusted that they must be newer. He has the index12 for the buy it now price of $110ea but he did accept my offer for $90

Here are some other options from that same Ebay seller

A set of 6 index9 injectors for $395 also taking offers
A set of 6 index12 injectors for $595 also taking offers

If he accepted $90 for that 1 index12 injector then he will more likely accept $540(or less) for 6 of them.

For those people that are so worried about replacing all 3 injectors in a bank we’ll get 3 and give yourself a peace of mind. Better yet get 6 and you’ll even be happier... you’ve got options! Me myself I’m content with 1 injector for $90 because I don’t think my car can run any better then this but the choice is yours.

Just 2 years ago I bought 6 brand new index12 injectors for my 535i from FCP for about $800 now the same 6 would cost about $1388 at FCP. After realizing that the injectors were not the problem with my 535i I ended up returning them for a full refund. I didn’t know the price was going to skyrocket, I wish I had kept them but whatever at these current prices I gotta be sensible.

[iqraceworks]

I'm just worried about the calibration numbers on the rebuilt injectors. If the flow rates changed ever so slightly after they were rebuilt but they still show the factory OEM calibration numbers....how big of a deal is it?

The whole calibration number thing on the injectors really doesn't make sense to me. I've put new OEM size injectors in lots of other cars if the years....and these are the only injectors of ever seen that you have to "code" to the DME with new calibration numbers.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

I'm just worried about the calibration numbers on the rebuilt injectors. If the flow rates changed ever so slightly after they were rebuilt but they still show the factory OEM calibration numbers....how big of a deal is it?

The whole calibration number thing on the injectors really doesn't make sense to me. I've put new OEM size injectors in lots of other cars if the years....and these are the only injectors of ever seen that you have to "code" to the DME with new calibration numbers.

How many of those cars were direct injection?

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

How many of those cars were direct injection?

Good point.....none of them. They were all low pressure type injectors.

[Wolf 335]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

I'm just worried about the calibration numbers on the rebuilt injectors. If the flow rates changed ever so slightly after they were rebuilt but they still show the factory OEM calibration numbers....how big of a deal is it?

The whole calibration number thing on the injectors really doesn't make sense to me. I've put new OEM size injectors in lots of other cars if the years....and these are the only injectors of ever seen that you have to "code" to the DME with new calibration numbers.

I would recommend to read up on the piezo element (piezoelectric crystal ) used in the injectors.

Its properties and operation in an injector will give you a bit of an understanding why.

[thefrog1394]

Another anecdote of mixing injectors being fine. I swapped an Index 1 injector for an index 12 without issue. One other injector was replaced by the previous owner a while back (Index 9 I think). The rest are still index 1's. Car seems to run fine, and its been about 10k miles (car has about 185k on it now).

I will say, I do have a bit of a weird surging (similar to this) as well as an occasional RPM hunt at idle on cold start. I don't think this is due to the injector mismatch, but can't rule it out, so figured I'd mention it.

On a low mileage car that you plan to keep for another 100k miles then I'd replace all with new index 12's. But for me, at almost 200k miles, on a car worth a few grand, even 1 $250 injector is a lot of money to put into this car.

[Legacy]

This is relevant to my interests

[iqraceworks]

I got my new index 12 injector from FCP Euro today. The plan is to install it this weekend. I will let you guys know if I have any issues with one index 12 mixed in with two index 7 injectors.

[Wolf 335]

Originally Posted by Salzamani

The Ebay user name is the phone number 1 (888) 972-7871. It’s been a couple months already but I called the company and actually spoke with someone so that I could have a open conversation. I recommend you do the same thing. Ask all the important question. He does warranty the injector for 1 month and if you leave a feedback he extends the warranty to 2 months. Plus you get Ebay’s buyer protection as well. I figured they are index 12 injectors that can’t be that old. They either work or they don’t work. I just wanted my car fixed without spending an arm and a leg. For only $90 It totally fixed all my existing problems. If it was a bad injector or was not working well with my other injectors or the car didn’t like it, it would be obvious. I would feel it and it would show up in my fuel economy. THE CAR RUNS PERFECT MAN ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Have you inquired about what exactly is rebuilt in this injector?
Can they actually tell you what is the rebuilding process?

[iqraceworks]

***UPDATE***

So I finally got around to pulling the bad injector. I think running that Techtron fuel system cleaner helped a little bit...because after sitting all night, the spark plug wasn't wet like it was before (so it wasn't leaking any more)....BUT, the spark plug was really black compared to the others...so for one reason or anther, that injector was running rich.

I pulled the bad index 7 injector, installed the new index 12 injector....coded it in with INPA, and fired up the car. It stumped for a second (I'm assuming because it had to get fuel through the injector), and then settled into a nice idle...no more popping and sputtering like before.

I took the car for a drive..it ran great! I scanned for codes when I got home, nothing.

At this point.....nothing is proving to me that you can't run an index 12 in with other injectors. At some point, I will probably change the other two in that bank out.....but for now, I'm just going to run it!

[Bent_remy]

Originally Posted by Salzamani

As I mentioned before in other threads, this is the index12 injector that I installed in my N54. Yes it is a used remanufactured injector. I looked closely into this Ebay sellerÂ’s feedback results on this injector in particular and the seller is spotless. They are legit genuine Siemens index12 Injectors. I even spoke to him on the phone and he answered all of my question to make me feel comfortable. That injector is mixed with my 5 index 1Â’s and has been absolutely perfect. Having/owning this index 12 injector also opens me up to potentially using it as a core to purchase future remanufactured injectors from FCP. This Ebay seller does take offers as well. I got mine for $90. Here is the link

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-FUEL-IN...-/262399013193


I figure like this. My original index 1 injectors have lasted me for 70k miles and 12 years and 5 of them are still going strong. There has been many updates to these injectors in an effort to improve them. Any index 12 injector, even used is likely to be in much better condition than my 12 year old injectors... why not just buy 1 yes used index12 injector to replace the one bad injector that I have and if it lasts me 2-5 years than thatÂ’s long enough for me to decide whether or not IÂ’ll even keep this car that long. Just running out and replacing 6 injectors for $1400 that money will not be recovered if I ever sell the car. Gotta keep things sensible. The value of the car doesnÂ’t support spending $1400 for a part and that beings a good decision. we may think we want to keep these cars for 10-15 years longer but statistics show that is very unlikely. ThatÂ’s why FCP is successful.

Thank for the insight. I think I'm going to go this route. My car has a terribly rough idle and smells like fuel cold start. These are original (not sure the index) and have been on the car for 110K miles. So this is something I'm going to have to take care of this ASAP but I can't stomach $1400 for new injectors. If I could get them for $90 I would swap out all 6. Did you also change the coil pack and plugs when you swapped the injector?

[iqraceworks]

If your coil packs are original..I would swap them out. How old are your spark plugs?

[Wolf 335]

So the car didn't blow up yet? Just checking.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by Wolf 335

So the car didn't blow up yet? Just checking.

Nope......running perfect!!!

[Salzamani]

Originally Posted by Bent_remy

Thank for the insight. I think I'm going to go this route. My car has a terribly rough idle and smells like fuel cold start. These are original (not sure the index) and have been on the car for 110K miles. So this is something I'm going to have to take care of this ASAP but I can't stomach $1400 for new injectors. If I could get them for $90 I would swap out all 6. Did you also change the coil pack and plugs when you swapped the injector?

Did I replace the coil packs and Spark plugs? Yes and yes. Boy is that a whole other story. I had one Coil pack that had gone bad and was making the car sputter really bad and after replacing them issue was resolved(not related to injector in any way). Purchased them all from FCP. As far as the spark plugs go just heads up this was my experience after replacing them just as general maintenance since they had 60+k miles on them the car actually ran worse much worse and there is a thread that I highly recommend you take the time to read to become familiar with this known issue.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571344

On page 2 iseck1 has a long write up on his findings and on page 3 I share mine.
Once the coil packs and spark plugs are changed and the intakes are cleaned(walnut blasted or clean with CRC) which are all important to do with these engines then you should address any fuel injector issues...

Yeah if you do have a leaky injector just get it replaced as it has a big influence on engine health and fuel economy. The eBay link I left above has been known to be a reliable source. If you do the injector as a DYI be careful how you pull out the old injector, no you don’t have to have the injector removal tool(kinda expensive) in most cases but you also can’t go yanking and prying like crazy either as you risk damaging the head. Research it a bit and you’ll be fine. Also be sure to code the new injectors flow rate. You can use INPA for that, it only takes seconds.

Got any questions feel free to ask there are a lot of good people here that are very knowledgeable and can guide you through your decisions and DYI’s.